Oct 1
Should You Buy Land in Second Life?
I recently purchased a nice plot of land in Kidoko West, owned by Doeko Cassidy of slnn.com fame, when I bought it, I thought I was getting a pretty good deal, the person I knew had purchased it for 65,000 lindens and was selling it to me for 40,000 lindens because she was buying some other land. I figured I could hang there for awhile and then flip it and make a few lindens, whatever, I considered it an experiment, so it didn’t really matter. I had no idea at the time what I was getting into exactly, so hopefully this post will help some of you in Second Life, as it has been a learning experience for me.
Wouldn’t you know it though, this wasn’t even a month after the gambling shutdown, before the whole Ginko Financials thing happened, so, land prices dropped some and there was more and more land available, further dropping prices. As a matter of fact, the price of land has been dropping all year long, this month so far the average price per meter is 6.4813, at this time, last month it was 7.0839 per meter, in June it averaged 8.5869, in May 9.1649, in March it was 10.63 a meter, in February it was 11.29, and in January of this year it was 12.20 lindens per meter. The price is almost half of what it used to be, so, I guess right now it is a buyers market. The total number of residents with land for sale in January was 2,849 residents selling 12,894 parcels totaling 8,313,696 square meters for sale. This month there are 7,444 residents with land for sale, about triple January’s numbers, selling 44,881 parcels, little over triple January’s numbers, totaling 29,964,256 square meters for sale, or almost four times January’s numbers.
But, should you buy land, or should you just rent it? Going by those numbers, you should probably wait until the prices bottom out before you consider buying. What exactly is the advantage to buying a parcel of land from someone who owns the Island, or sim? If anyone has any, please leave a comment, because, right now, all I know are reasons not to buy land.
What is the advantage of renting over buying land? Well, the main thing to me is you can’t get screwed out of your investment, because you don’t have that big payment up front when you just rent it, if you get kicked out for some reason. As an example, in my case, I paid 40,000 lindens for the land, thinking I could sell it and make a little when I did, but I still had to pay 2,128 lindens a week for the tier fees, which is more than I was paying in rent for the place I was already “living in”. Now, I had a lot more prims available on the land that I “purchased”, but, all I used them for was stuff I didn’t need, but that is one plus for buying. Using Kidoko West as an example, the covenant states that when the timer hits 0, they can reclaim your land and are then free to resell it or rent it.
When I first bought it, I asked if the tier fees were monthly, the lady I bought it from said yes, so, it was surprising to me when the fees came due again a few days after buying it. I even waited a few days because I im’ed Doeko to see what the deal was, so the very first week I was a few days late because I was thinking I shouldn’t have to pay them yet. I received no response from Doeko, and everyday I received this message that said I was late pay to avoid eviction, so, I ended up figuring it out after reading the covenant again, it said the fees were weekly, so I went ahead and paid them, and started thinking about whether I should get rid of it or not, as it was going to cost me more than my current rent, when I thought it would be cheaper and eventually pay itself off. Again, this part is my fault, I did not read the covenant thoroughly, there must’ve been some confusion between the seller and I on the tier fee’s, and I did not have the proper knowledge going in to know exactly what to check and what my rights were.
At this point, I was a few days late, and saw no ill affects other than the daily message about it being late, in fact, I saw several different plots that had been expired for two weeks, and others that I have talked to said the same thing, and I kind of figured I would get some kind of final notice before they actually reclaimed it. Nope.
So here I am holding my virtual dick in my hand with no recourse, I just loose the $180 some dollars, or $40,000 some odd thousand lindens I paid for it. Legal, yes, good business? I wouldn’t think so, if you truly want to pay the monthly tier fees, you would think they would want to keep on getting their weekly payments from users such as my self. Ethical? I don’t think so, I asked to get the land back or for some kind of refund, there are no refunds, you should’ve paid Doeko said, I still can, but it is already listed for sale again, which is probably the whole point. This sim has probably paid for itself many times, I just wonder how many times some of these plots have been reclaimed and sold by them. Certainly isn’t a very neighborly practice, like they claim they are in the covenant.
If you want to live in Kidoko West, or anything owned by Doeko Cassidy, I recommend you rent and avoid all the chances of losing your “investment”.
For everyone that will say this is just sour grapes and I should’ve known exactly how this stuff works, you are right, I am just trying to prevent other people from doing the same thing and hopefully, helping you save your lindens.
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I bought 2 different parcels of land on Kazami South, another sim that Doeko Cassidy owns. There was always the option to pay my tiers weekly or monthly, so maybe this is something new he is doing on his new sims.
As far as doing business with Doeko, he’s available when he opens a new sim, to get the land sold but after that, don’t expect to hear from him anytime soon if there is a problem. I waited almost a WEEK for him to deed my land to my group and this was after daily IM’s that even quoted his own covenant to him (the covenant stated that if there was no response within 48 hours from him or a member of his staff, you would start to receive free days) and still nothing. When I finally did get a hold of him, there was no real reason other than he was busy, on why he didn’t get back to me and I never got my free time that was promised in the covenant.
As far as your land being sold out from under you, there have been plots in Kazami North and South that remained expired for past 30 days and they were never sold out from under the owner. Either he’s on his game now or he’s picking and choosing who he is going to enforce the rules with. Which is also the case in Kazami South. The covenant there clearly states that there is to be NO commercial businesses in operation, yet he is letting someone run a land rental office there. This is the same guy who has bought up almost half of the sim, turned around and subdivided the plots and is now renting them all out to try to turn a profit. He has turned the whole feel of the sim of that of a community into a fly by night rental operation. It’s one of the reasons that I decided to sell my land and get the hell out.
What am I doing now? Renting! I have a beautiful plot more than double what I had in Kazami South with more than double the prims and I am paying 20L more per week than I did for my tier fees at Kazami. Owning your own land may feel like a great deal, but in reality, it’s all the same. You still pay tier fees and you still have that uncertainty of being at the mercy of the sim owner, but at least if something does happen, you’re not out that big chunk of money up front for the land.
Great article! Thanks for sharing your experiences with us!
I just sold a parcel I owned on one of Doeko’s sims (Kazami South) and while I don’t have a negative experience to share relative to Doeko specifically, I have to say I think that land ownership in SL is a sucker bet. To have all those Lindens tied up AND still have to pay huge weekly tiers that are generally higher than most rents for similar or better properties, just seems…wrong to me. And it’s not as if ownership REALLY means anything, the bottom line is if the sim sells to a new owner and they want to make a water park out of it, you’ll still be out on your virtual bottom.
Thanks for stopping by you two.
Jenda, that is exactly the reason I wan’t worried about loosing the land yet, becasue I saw so many at different times with fees due longer than a week. I guess it is at his whim, or whenever he feels like doing it. It was obvious to me he didn’t care as I had no other option than to walk away, had he really been interested in the tier fees, he would’ve taken the lindens from me and returned the land to me, so, it is obvious to me, this way he makes a lot more money.
Doeko Cassidy is a complete rip-off artist. I payed for an apartment at his Nuvo Estates, which wasn’t finished. I was told by his associate that the apartment still needed to be finished, and that the textures needed to be added. So I put a downpayment, expecting to move in 3 days later. When I showed up, NOTHING was finished, and I was told by the same associate that Doeko had to re-do all of the textures because they were messing up. I asked for my money back, and he said he’d let Doeko know about.
That was almost 2 months ago, and I’ve left numerous messages for Doeko and his associate. NOTHING has happened. I’ve been completely ripped off by him, and he refuses to even acknowledge my existence. Let this be a lesson to ANYONE reading…Doeko Cassidy is a complete scam-artist, but that’s Okay…every fool gets their own in the end. Spread the word!
Here is his email from the slnn.com website should you like to try to contact Doeko Cassidy there, doeko.cassidy@slnn.com
His associate’s name wouldn’t begin with an “F” would it? Or a “T”?
[...] how to buy and sell land Here is a class to help you avoid the same mistake I made buying land in Second [...]
Hello everyone,
On expirations, evictions, the covenant and notices on Crystal Islands, I think there is a lot of misunderstanding. While the covenant states that we have the right to reclaim your land the second your timer hits zero, we will not usually do so and allow a small grace period for you to show up and pay. During that grace period, you will receive many IM’s to notify you of possible eviction. If you choose not to pay during the grace period, then your land will be reclaimed. However, we will always try to work something out with you if your land has been reclaimed. Like I offered Stone his land back if he would pay the fees due, but he refused. We try to prevent reselling bought plots as much as possible.
Stone had, in this case, paid his tier fees for 2 weeks (about half of the monthly fee in USD). I’m not sure where it makes sense to believe that paying half the monthly fee will cover you for the whole month.
You may have noticed that Stone wrote he IM’ed me several times. Usually, IM’s sent to me do not go through. That is why the top of my profile says to send notecards covering full details. This allows me to respond to you quickly.
To Jenda: The “month-long” expirations that are observed sometimes are mainly due to a bug in the terminal. Simple as that. I am not aware of any rental offices and if I were, they would certainly be removed. I rely on the surrounding neighbours to inform me of what is inside structures as it is undoable to be certain of the contents of every single property on over 30 sims.
To answer your question on the reason to buy land (on Crystal Islands): we offer the lowest tier fees in SL, guaranteed. If you can find lower, then we will comp you the difference. So you will be earning back your investment through savings. Apart from that, many if not all crystal islands land owners trying to sell their land have succeeded in doing so. Your investment can be pulled out easily. However, you do have to maintain it and make sure it does not expire.
Regarding the accusation of being a scam artist, I don’t have much to say. The associate who had misinformed Hailey is no longer with us. Having him on board in the first place was an unfortunate mistake. The apartment Hailey mentioned was, in fact, finished. The problem was that she refused to agree. I had offered to apply the money she had paid for it somewhere else.
There are many satisfied tenants on Crystal Islands. Some of which have been with us from the very beginning. We currently hold over 30 sims and have grown organically to this point from holding only one single sim one-and-a-half year ago.
There will always be people who misunderstand the rules or fall outside of the group that actually enjoys the product we offer. Luckily, that group is very small.
Doeko,
Not once was I offered a chance to catch up the tier fees to get my land back, as a matter of fact, here is the exact answer I received from you when I asked for the land back or a refund.
[9:01] Doeko Cassidy: Hi Stone, you should’ve paid when it said “Please pay now to avoid eviction” for about a week
[9:02] Doeko Cassidy: You didn’t pay to avoid eviction, so you were evicted. I’m sorry this happened to you, but you must keep up with these things. The covenant also says there are no refunds
Show me where I refused, please. Tell me I misread that somehow, because nowhere in there does it say pay your late fees and you can have the land back. Of course I would’ve taken it back, that way I could’ve sold it to someone else and regained some of the money back that I paid for it, I paid less than the price you have it listed for, but it was still L$45,000 lindens. Hell, I’d probably pay the fees up until now to get it back, but I see you already have another sucker in that spot. As a matter of fact, I don’t see any of the same people that where there when I was there, I wonder why? Of course I couldn’t fly all the way accross the island to check, so I could’ve missed someone.
I think the misunderstanding with the expirations, evictions, the covenant and notices on Crystal Islands is a part of the “land business” that you use to your advantage. How many times have you sold some of these parcels? If you are going to take the land back, you should at least give someone some notice, especially if you are going to let them go 2 weeks or even a month late. It should be your responsibility to make it clear when you are retaking the land, and if you say you always offer residents the chance to get the land back, then you should actually give that chance.
The person who sold me the land, let me believe there were no tier fees when I bought it, and it is certainly my fault for not checking for sure before buying, or I would’ve never bought the land. The place I am renting now costs me about a third of the Crystal Lands spot, and I am perfectly happy there and amonsgt friends.
I still stand by my statement, there is no reason on this or any other life that you need to buy land in Second Life if you are just going to live there. The savings Doeko mentions, as an example, would’ve been about 1,000 lindens a week over the rental price. Sure that sounds good, but you have to pay 55,000 lindens up front to do that, and it will take about ten or so months to actually get the money back you paid for the land, then you can start saving lindens.
Ya, that sounds like a deal to me.
As always, buyer beware, especially in Second Life when buying land. And be careful of everyone you deal with in Second Life, as many are just there to take advantage of people, because this is just a game, right Doeko?
[...] let me know and I will post it here. There are quite a few Land FAQ’s, see my opinion on owning land here. Note: You will have to login to see [...]
Alright, I know i’m a little late on commenting on this post but there does seem to be some confusion that i’d like to clear up for anybody reading this post.
First off, i’m going to say that no matter how much you complain Doeko has every legal right to evict you from his land. He owns it and he, along with any other realtor (such as myself), can evict anyone at will WITH OR WITHOUT REASON. So you really cant be mad at him, you agreed to his rules so you have to go with them.
Second, Some lands do a weekly/monthly rent set up. What I mean is that maybe the per-month charge is L$40,000 for example, the company(or person) who owns the land may have you pay L$10,000 weekly or you can pay in advance the whole month charges and not go through too much trouble.
Third, Stone is partly right when he mentions, “I think the misunderstanding with the expirations, evictions, the covenant and notices on Crystal Islands is a part of the “land business” that you use to your advantage.” This, in fact, is the case with just about any legal-contract-based land-selling company within Second Life. A lot of people both in-world and out type things in a very confusing way, you have to understand we want to at least break even every month and to do that we need some way to, occasionally, evict someone for a simple error so we can sell the land again. And attempt to continue at least breaking even.
I have lived on one of Doeko’s properties before I started selling properties myself, and I have to say the first few days were very stressful if you havnt been in Second Life a few years and don’t know all of the vasics and most advanced features of how to “operate” in Second Life. But for the most part I was very satisfied with the way the covenant was written.
And to Stone, if you send a few IM’s to somebody and they don’t reply I highly suggest you send notecards asking them a few questions or just ask them to meet you somewhere in Second Life on a specific date and time. If you act like an adult and take appropriate actions you’ll get very far in-world. One way to avoid being a child is complaining in a blog. Thins can always be resolved if you ask for help face-to-face whereas IM’s may not always get through.
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